Episode 89: The Queerest Club in the World

[iamjohnlocked4life]

Episode 89: The Queerest Club in the World

In which we queer the text, go to PodCon, discuss queer fandom in traditional Holmesian spaces, and bake Sherlock a cake. Show notes and direct download information are available HERE at three-patch.com. Say hi to us with other social media on Twitter, Tumblr, Pillowfort and Facebook, and subscribe to our newsletter for more Three Patch goodness!

Comments and discussion welcome below!

Featuring:

• A discussion with Johnlocked, Elinor, and Jen about the intersection between modern queer-centric fandom and classic Holmesian societies
• Highlights from PodCon 2
• Queering the Text with alexxphoenix42, Emma Grant, earlgreytea68, and Ann McClellan, the author of Sherlock’s World: Fan Fiction and the Reimagining of BBC’s Sherlock
• Plus fic recs, fandom news, top tens, and a Sherlock cake!
  

[Art by Fox Estacado]

Segment timestamps:
0:00:37 – Host Opening
0:31:27 – Queer Fandom Meets Scion Societies
1:01:59 – PodCon Roundup
1:31:31 – Top Ten Victorian Slang That Sounds Sexual (But Isn’t)
1:33:34 – Queering The Text RT
2:17:45 – Consulting Culinarians: Sherlock Cake
2:47:54 – Top Ten Victorian Slang That’s Actually Sexual
2:49:34 – Live From PodCon
3:08:37 – That’s My Division
3:22:46 – Post Mortem

Comments

[guanin]

Out of curiosity, is there any discussion of asexual readings of Sherlock in this episode?

[iamjohnlocked4life]

Hey Guanin, thanks for asking! There's some talk of asexual readings of Holmes in the Queer Fandom Meets Scion Societies discussion; we talk about bringing queer readings of ACD to scion/"classic" Holmes groups, and there's mention of various readings (gay, trans, ace) but overall asexuality isn't a major subject of the segment.

However, we've been discussing having another episode that focuses on asexuality sometime later this year (month tbd) since we haven't had a dedicated roundtable since 2013!
In the meantime, if you're interested in checking out our backlog, Episode 11: Married To My Work is where we had the Asexuality RT - episode is here: http://three-patch.com/2013/11/01/episode-11/ and the stand-alone segment is here: http://www.three-patch.com/casefiles/11-roundtable-asexuality/
There's a 3-part Queer RT series (also from the early days in 2013) that discusses various queer interpretations, including asexuality (particularly in Part 3).
Part 1: http://www.three-patch.com/casefiles/6-roundtable-queer/
Part 2: http://www.three-patch.com/casefiles/6-5-roundtable-queer/
Part 3: http://www.three-patch.com/casefiles/8-queer-roundtable/
Asexuality is also talked about in a Geek Interpreter segment from 2017 about fandom as a queer-friendly space: http://www.three-patch.com/casefiles/52-geek-interpreter/

Hope that helps! Happy listening ^_^

[guanin]

Thanks for the info!. I had already listened to episode 11, but I didn't know about the other roundtables. I'm looking forward to the new episode!

[sarahthecoat]

yay!

[guanin]

I have listened through Queering the Text. So, the reason why I asked if asexuality came on in this episode earlier was because the majority of the discussion I’ve read and seen so far (I’ve been in this fandom like three months, so I admit it’s only the tip of the iceberg) about having John and Sherlock in a queer relationship involves them having romantic and sexual feelings for each other. I write bisexual John and arospec ace Sherlock. So while I do have John experience these things for Sherlock, I also queer the text by having Sherlock not feel that for John. I also write Sherlock as experiencing aesthetic and sensual attraction, which is a very specific queer experience. I’m not aro, but I am ace and sex-repulsed, and I identified with Sherlock immediately, ages before I even knew what asexuality was. I don’t see him having sexual feelings. I have nothing against the interpretations of people who do (we’re not really all watching the same show, but that’s another philosophical discussion). But, personally, it would feel OOC to me to view him that way. Season 1 Sherlock particularly is excellent aroace representation, in my opinion.

I consider myself to be an unorthodox Johlocker. I ship Johnlock, but my definition of the word “relationship” is much more nuanced and complicated than the usual definition (a romantic and sexual one). In my experience, the traditional way of queering a text involves giving a character these attractions, but my version is to have characters not experience sexual feelings. I’m only up to my second Sherlock fic now, but I’ve been writing ace characters for four years now and it still feels subversive even within an environment of queer fic. In a way, watching John and Sherlock in the show feels subversive because I see an intimate, platonic relationship while everyone else sees a romantic/sexual one. I can look at the canon and either see John having platonic feelings for Sherlock or romantic and sexual feelings, but from Sherlock’s side it’s always all platonic. That’s just how I see it.

In general, I feel like there needs to be more discussion about how platonic relationships can be queer relationships. In my first fic, I have the boys in a queerplatonic relationship. It even has queer in the name.

That being said, I really appreciate how this podcast supports asexuality and asexual interpretations of Sherlock. I haven't found that in the other fandoms I've been in, and it's really refreshing.

[iamjohnlocked4life]

Thank you for this perspective! I've certainly learned a lot about asexuality since joining this fandom, and love to hear about various interpretations of Sherlock's character through an ace and/or aro lens.

I have found a good deal of exploration of ace Sherlock in a queer relationship with John in earlier fics, from s1 & 2. If you're newer to the fandom, you may want to do a deep dive into the archives for fics with the asexual!Sherlock tag, particularly those written 2010-2013.
You might enjoy aceofheart61's fics, which explore queer platonic relationships: https://archiveofourown.org/users/aceofhearts61/pseuds/aceofhearts61/works?fandom_id=133185

I think that after s3, people's interpretations of Sherlock changed, and this affected a lot of the writing, culture, and discussions regarding his orientation. I think it's harder to read Sherlock as aro in s3 & 4, though ace could certainly still be apt. There wasn't as much ace meta/discussion in the fandom post-s3/4, but I think there are still plenty of ace Sherlock fans.

And we're definitely discussing another TPP episode focusing on asexuality later this year! We'll probably chat about this a bit in next month's body bag section, if you don't mind us featuring your comments (^_^)

[guanin]

Thanks for the rec!

To be honest... I ignore season 3 and 4 as much as I can. Not because of this. I don't like where they took the story or John's character. I actually was about to join the fandom when season 3 came out, but it wound up putting me off the show altogether for a long time. There are some individual things about it I do like, but I stick to seasons 1 and 2 for the most part for interpretations and reading fic. Although I don't really feel like there was a shift in Sherlock's orientation in those seasons, but I'm a little out of my depth on the aro side of things as far as that's concerned. I would love to see an aro person's take on it. I do think that how he acted in TSOT corresponds with a lot of aro narratives I've read. In a different way, it hit really close to home for me, too.

I'm looking forward to that episode. Sure, I don't mind at all.

[iamjohnlocked4life]

Popping back on this thread to add one more link:
http://inevitably-johnlocked.tumblr.com/post/183609835526/hey-do-you-know-any-fics-where-johnlock-are-in-a
Not only did your fic get a shoutout, it also prompted a rec list (along with links to 3 other rec lists)! Hope you find somethings you enjoy ^_^